235. You Deserve More Than “Fine”- Katie’s Story of Wanting More—and Getting It
✨ “My life was already good. But I realized…I was playing small.” ✨
Meet Katie. She came into the mastermind with no big dream, no dramatic plan—just a quiet knowing that her good life could be great.
What happened next?
💫 A paid sabbatical she asked for—and got.
💫 A whole new crew of aligned, joyful AF friendships.
💫 A dating life that became playful, electric, hers, and IRL.
💫 And a new core belief that she gets what she wants.
This episode will shift something in you. Especially if you're thinking:
"My life is already 'good enough', who am I to want more?"
You're someone who's ready. Who’s done settling.
Someone who deserves more than just “fine.”
Someone who’s stepping into their main character energy.
🎧 Listen now + step into your Main Character Era.
Want to go deeper?
Join us for the free live training on April 23rd:
✨ Stop People-Pleasing + Build a Stupidly Joyful Life ✨
You’ll learn exactly how to cultivate Main Character Energy — and get a behind-the-scenes look at the 6-month mastermind, Main Character Life.
RSVP HERE-- https://www.datebrazen.com/joyful-life
Applications open during the live event, and spots are limited.
Apply HERE
Order my book, “Thank You, More Please”: https://www.datebrazen.com/book
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Show transcript:
Lily @ Date Brazen (00:00.152)
Hey gorgeous friends, welcome to another episode of the Date Raisin Podcast. I'm so glad that you are here. So here's the deal. There's probably been a massive risk on your heart and brain for a long time. You have probably wanted to shoot your shot with that cutie, IRL, ask them out to quit your soul sucking job, to start that business you've been ideating on for years, to ask for that raise, to move to Europe, to like do that thing that's been on your heart to do.
and you probably, because you're probably type A like me, you make a to-do list at 9 p.m. on a Friday after a friend pumps you up and you open your notes app and you're like furiously writing down, okay, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do this, and then you get stuck. You might get stuck in fear, in self-doubt, in caregiving for others, in people-pleasing, in the fear of other people's judgment, and then you look up and it's a year later and the to-do list has been gathering dust on your notes app. And you're in the same place.
If that has been you, then I want you to know what you want is on the other side of you stepping into your main character energy. It is time to take that risk that you've been dreaming of and make sure it pays off with your confident main character energy. And that's why I am leading a free live training tomorrow, if you're listening to this on October 8th, when it comes out tomorrow, October 9th, 2024.
I'm leading a live free training called Take That Risk with Confident Main Character Energy, where you're going to learn my framework for how I help my clients take massive risks that pay off big time. You're gonna learn how to own everything that you want, claim that massive risk you've been dreaming of with self-celebration. You're going to learn how to release the fear that has been holding you back and keeping you stuck. I'm gonna help you come up with a main character plan to make it happen.
And this plan will help you eliminate obstacles before they occur. So you're like ready to move forward quicker without the self doubt so that you can take that risk that you've been dreaming of with main character energy and make sure it pays off. Today's episode is with Katie, my client from main character life, my six month mastermind, formerly known as main character energy mastermind. Katie came into the mastermind not really knowing what she wanted her project to be.
Lily @ Date Brazen (02:25.038)
She didn't really know, she didn't have on her heart this like big change. She didn't really want to move or change jobs. She felt like she had some good friends and she felt like her life was good, but she knew that it was good, not great yet. She knew that she was in her comfort zone. She had built this beautiful life and she wanted something bigger and she didn't even know how to define it yet. She just was called to this work because the invitation to step into main character energy
inspired her, made her feel alive. And so she trusted herself to take the leap and join us because at this live training, the applications for my mastermind open, we open like previously we opened only once a year. So this is a really special, exciting time. And she applied, she joined us, she felt self-trust telling her that this was the right next step. She didn't know exactly what she wanted her project to be. And we ended up co-creating the most
epic main character project together that involved doing scary and exciting things that brought her immense joy, building a new core group of friends. She ended up leaving the mastermind with a whole new set of frickin friends in her city. She noticed one week that she had had plans every night with new friends that she didn't know before the mastermind. And it made her really emotional. This conversation made me emotional too. I wanted to start crying when she shared that.
But that's just like one little snippet of how this main character project increased the quality of her life, increased her ability to ask for what she wanted. She ended up making an epic ask at work that she didn't even know was possible. And we're gonna get into that as well in this episode. If you have a risk on your heart, or if you just feel a tingle at this invitation to start stepping into your main character energy and your love life and everywhere.
then come to my live training tomorrow, October 9th, 2024. Everybody who registers will get the recording. You're gonna learn about main character life, my six month mastermind to release people pleasing, build rock solid self trust, become the main character of your whole fricking life in just six months. I can't wait to support you with the weekly group coaching, with the monthly one-on-one support, with the friendship building hub that I've created for you, with the gorgeous workbook that you'll get in the mail when you join the mastermind.
Lily @ Date Brazen (04:46.634)
All of that, that work, that community, that coven of cheerleaders is waiting for you on the other side of accepting this invitation into your main character energy. So go register for the live training. If you're catching this after October 9th and before October 18th, then our applications are open right now. So what's going to happen is that if you want to join us in the Mastermind, you'll fill out a quick application. The application questions alone will increase your main character energy.
If you're a good fit, you'll get a link to my calendar and we can schedule an unhurried sales call so we can see if this is the best next step. I'm only accepting the people who are absolutely right for this program and who are ready to go on this journey together with this group. It's going to be a powerful, intimate coven of cheerleaders. So get ready, Mastermind is coming. That live training is happening October 9th and Katie's story is going to inspire the hell out of you.
Especially if you have been hearing these like calls into like, take that risk with main character energy and you're like, I don't really know what the risk is I want to take, but I do feel like I want to step onto a bigger stage than this episode with Katie is for you. You're going to leave feeling so much more clarity about what could be possible. You're going to leave with a sense of like what an action plan could look like that was built on your terms for your main character energy. And I hope you leave feeling less alone.
Because what you want in this life, in your love life and in your work life and your friendship life, what you want is possible. It is possible. And let Katie's story be an example of that. What you want is possible. It's on the other side of you showing up with main character energy. So with that, let's get into the episode.
Lily @ Date Brazen (06:35.854)
Hey, I'm Lily Wonville, former top matchmaker and founder of Date Brazen. After setting up hundreds, I realized that with coaching, women could match themselves better than anyone else ever could. With my unconventional feminist approach, I've helped women around the world build courageous and self-trust-filled love lives, and now I'm here to support you. Get ready, because I'm about to share the exact steps you need to attract a soul-quenching partnership and feel amazing about yourself along the way. This is the Date Brazen podcast.
Hey gorgeous friends, I'm going to introduce our guest in a moment, but I just need we were starting a conversation that I just wanted to pick up with right here. Katie, what were you just saying about sending me this picture? Like paint the picture. Where were you? What was happening?
So I was sitting on my beautiful terrace in Strasbourg, France, where I could see the top of the cathedral. And it was a beautifully sunny day. There were flowers, not only flowers on the terrace, but I also bought myself flowers to really enhance the moment. And it was a beautiful day. And I was just taking a little bit of a rest between lunch and going out again. And I was sitting there reading my advance copy of Thank You More, Please. And I had to share it with Lily because it was truly one of the
Most consciously aware happy moments I felt that I had and I really felt that I had gifted myself this. I feel like a lot of this started with the investment that I made with Date Brazen and Main Character Energy in actually spending money and gifting myself things that were more about personal development and growth. That trip was certainly something that was a big gift to myself and I feel like I made it
bigger and more expansive because of a lot of the work that we've done together.
Lily @ Date Brazen (08:23.92)
my God. Well, so I, y'all, I received this picture of your stunning terrace on a sabbatical from work that you asked for during main character energy mastermind that we coached on, that we worked on, that you were really nervous to ask for, that you're on then it's happening. It's there. And you're like,
This is my main character energy. And then you send me a video of you talking to the camera with these glamorous sunglasses on, on your French terrace. I couldn't believe, I mean, I could, but like, I was so excited.
It was such a great moment and I really wanted before I sent you that video, I actually started taking that video just for myself being like, I want to remember this moment because I just feel so aligned and so happy and so much, you you have a saying that I just have loved, which is like, I get everything I want. And, you know, the sabbatical in retrospect, like I didn't know this when I asked for it, but it was in the works and it was going to come probably regardless of my ass.
I'm sure me asking didn't hurt, like it was something they were already kind of working on that I didn't know. But regardless, I love, I asked for it. I got it. Who cares how it came about? It happened. And it was just such a special moment. But then as I was taping it, I was like, no, I'm this to Lily. Especially because I was like sitting down to read the book.
You were promoting Thank You More Please, the book. I'm so grateful. It was a true Thank You More Please moment. So let's back up for the people listening. Obviously, hello, Gorgeous Friends. I'm so glad that you're here today. I am joined by an incredible human who I have had the pleasure of coaching for the past year or so and in different
Lily @ Date Brazen (10:11.278)
programs. She was in the Brazen Breakthrough and then she also joined Main Character Energy Mastermind this last round in 2023 going into 2024. I am so excited to dive into her story, her breakthroughs, so that you can get inspired to live more in your main character energy. Even if you don't know exactly where it's going to lead you, even if you feel like my life is pretty good right now, but like, why do I?
I feel this pull towards doing something more, I don't really know what it is. Even if that's you, means that this episode is going to inspire the hell out of you. Katie, welcome.
Thank you. my God.
And we already, you know, this is a formality at this point, because we already dove in. I'm like on the edge of my seat. Tell the people at home what is important to know about you.
That's a great question. What is important to know about me? I think similar to your introduction, I feel like I have an amazing life. I love my job. I work in marketing for a travel company. And I travel a lot both personally and have opportunities through work, which feels just very aligned with things that I'm interested in. Amazing family, amazing little nephews, not so little actually, two of them are much taller than me, and great friends. But I felt
Katie (11:31.554)
that there was more that I was looking for in life, even outside of a romantic partnership, which is something obviously that we've talked about and worked on first with Braise and Breakthrough. But I felt a real desire and your kind of your approach and philosophy really called to me. And I could tell I was already making such breakthroughs in Braise and Breakthrough that I really wanted to continue in a deeper level, which is really what kind of drew me.
to main character energy. And I remember struggling with the decision for a couple reasons. One, obviously it's a big financial commitment. Two, I didn't have a thing. Some of the other people in the program were interested in putting a job and doing something different or making a big career change or moving forward with a business that they were the CEO of. And I didn't have a thing like that. I'm happy at my job.
I wasn't looking to make a big shift like that, but yet I still felt so drawn to the program because I felt like there was more that I wanted from life and I didn't just want to sit by and continue to feel like every year or every few years when you reflect that like you wanted more from life, but you weren't being an active participant and making that happen.
What did that sound like in your brain when you would reflect and say, I want more from life? Like, what did that mean to you? But, you know, regardless of our work, like when you were thinking about that before we met, what did that sound like?
full life. I have, and I think because I've been single for so long and have built a really comfortable, nice life for myself, which I do enjoy, it can be easy to get stuck in that comfort. And I knew that like, yes, well, it's really comforting to come home and have like a nice dinner and then like, watch Netflix or like a show that like you're you enjoy or even take a walk. Like, I wanted more
Lily @ Date Brazen (13:22.072)
Yeah.
Katie (13:36.802)
to my life more social probably. When I really was thinking about it, it was probably more social connection. And understanding that while obviously I do deeply desire to meet a romantic partner and I have some control in that and some things that are outside of my control, what I did feel like I had to acknowledge is I had a lot more control in building a very fulfilling.
Yeah.
Katie (14:05.932)
social, joyful life. A lot of it was more social connection. My very best friend who lives, who lived close to me, because I have a few best friends, you know, like most girls, right? Yeah. She moved to Georgia during COVID. That really forced me because she's my, she was my only single physically close girlfriend. That really forced me to have to like,
Yeah.
Lily @ Date Brazen (14:19.171)
Hopefully.
Katie (14:33.58)
really reflect on, wow, like, we were really each other's social lives. I don't want to be in a situation again, where one person moving kind of really disrupts. Of course, there's also complexities with being in COVID that made that more challenging too. But I was like, I want to have a more full social life, not just for that reason, but but also just because I really think something I really realized during this program is
I really enjoy people, like I really enjoy meeting new people. I like making new connections, new friendships, learning from people. People have such interesting stories. And that's something that I feel like I really got out of the program was just like really enjoying kind of getting out of my comfort zone and meeting more new people, making more connections. Certainly on the trip that I just took, I got to meet a lot of amazing people, a lot of other solo travelers with great stories, really interesting backgrounds.
And I've really, really enjoyed that. So I think what felt missing that I felt like I had more control over was joy building and social connection.
I wonder for you what were some breakthroughs you had during Brazen Breakthrough before you joined the Mastermind. And then let's get into the weeds of when we were first connecting about the Mastermind and what came up for you around the decision to join us because there's something really juicy in that that I want to bring to the fore. first, give me a list of some Brazen Breakthrough breakthroughs then let's get into our first call about the Mastermind.
Okay, so some of the breakthroughs, think one thing, and it's funny because this came up in a therapy session this morning, but self-compassion was probably maybe the biggest breakthrough, maybe? I don't know. I have to really reflect it. have to think.
Lily @ Date Brazen (16:25.464)
Do you remember being really resistant to it?
Yes, because it's not how...
You were like, what's this? I don't want this.
It's very counter to how I was raised and how I personally, even probably how I personally felt until a few months ago. I felt like no excuses, like push through it. Like that felt very much like, you're being too soft. You're being too easy on yourself. Like it's not okay. it's people have it worse. A lot of comparative stuff with that. So I would say self-compassion, it's,
I would say it feels like it's probably at the cornerstone of a lot of the work that we did in the program. I don't know if you'd agree with that statement. That was something very much out of my comfort zone. But I could actively see as the program progressed and I would lean into it that it was a very helpful tool. Because certainly being hard on myself wasn't getting myself anywhere.
Lily @ Date Brazen (17:25.868)
just wrote down a little sticky note. know how I feel about sticky notes and taking furious notes about what my clients say is this idea of I was in my comfort zone in this beautiful home that I've built, this beautiful life that I've built, this like that I am living in day to day. I'm so grateful for all these lovely, I have amazing friends. I have amazing job, right? Comfort zone and the pushing through mentality.
Yes.
I remember a huge main character energy moment that you had in our time in that program when you went to a restaurant or a bar. I don't remember which one it was for the first time.
Yes, and it was the night before my birthday because I specifically wanted to have that off my list
was on your like dare list. Yeah, which we'll get into in a moment about the program and the dares that Katie did with the main character energy mastermind program. I think that you had identified in the mastermind, how did you feel about going out solo? Like what were some thoughts that you had or assumptions that you had about that?
Katie (18:33.976)
happily give a presentation in front of 500 people at my company before I would want to go out to dinner solo. That's well a couple things I think growing up I always like would feel bad for people who were sitting by themselves or eating alone. So I think there was
Why?
Lily @ Date Brazen (18:50.478)
Like lunch, like a, like in the lunch room kind of thing. Yeah.
you feel bad like, oh, do they have no friends? Like, are they lonely? So that there's partly that which, you know, as an adult, can understand, you know, you can separate. Yeah, but I think also, like, I just felt like, I felt some of those things about myself, like, oh, people are gonna say, or feel bad for me, because I'm sitting here by myself, or what a loser because she has no one there to be with, right? And
So I ripped the bandaid the night before my birthday, because there had been this restaurant I had really wanted to try. And I was like, what am I waiting for? So I went and it actually was a really good experience. I sat at the bar and the bartender was so nice. And he actually gave me glass of wine, a sample. It was a great first experience. And then I just forced myself to keep doing it. So if I'd be out shopping at like,
an outdoor kind of nice venue, I'd say, all right, I'm gonna go get a glass of wine somewhere. Or I'm gonna go and I just would or I love sports. Yeah, so I'm like, what is hot? Like there's game on right now. Like, yeah, go sit there and like watch the football game. So I started to get more comfortable with it. And actually there are two things happen. One, I remember one day when one of my friends asked if if I wanted to go out and I was like, actually, like, I kind of want to go by myself because I feel like I'll have more opportunity.
Oh my God. Converse. Yes. And then there was a moment when I was on my sabbatical. It was like the very because I went to Europe and I worked for like two or three days and then I was officially off for three and a half weeks. And I remember sitting there that very first night. I went to a bar that had like live music. I was in Scotland. I was sitting there. Maybe I'd been about an hour. And I had this moment where I realized, oh my God.
Katie (20:50.964)
not once not once have I thought about the fact that I'm here alone. Not once have I felt like self conscious about it. I'm just enjoying the moment taking in the surroundings of music having a nice glass of wine like yes, I was just totally happy and in the moment and I hadn't remotely felt any of the self consciousness Katie
What do you think Katie a year before then or even six months before then would have thought about where you're at right now?
Gosh, that's a great question. I think she would have maybe hoped that but not not really thought like that would be totally true. Like, what I thought like you could push yourself to do that. Be miserable or you're probably going to just be like, how soon can I leave or
Probably
Lily @ Date Brazen (21:36.302)
I'm probably gonna be.
Lily @ Date Brazen (21:41.774)
It's not going to be fun. I should be in a relationship, that old story default thought, like, I shouldn't be here alone. should be married by now. you know, and I just, this comes back to the comfort zone and the pushing through without self-compassion led to decreased resiliency. Right? Because what I'm hearing is that you would have assumed
Yes.
Lily @ Date Brazen (22:10.654)
I'm going to have a bad time. You wouldn't have tried. You're assuming, which is shutting down the trying, which is a resiliency gap. And with the skill of self-compassion that you started learning embrace and breakthrough that we shored up in the mastermind coupled with courageous action, I think you increase your capacity for resiliency and decrease your cortisol, which is the scientific outcome of self-compassion.
Riot.
Lily @ Date Brazen (22:40.236)
Well, what comes up when I say this, reflect that back to you.
lot of positive feelings. And also there was one thing you had said at one point when this had come up during the course and you said, it's interesting that your take on this is like, people might think I'm lonely or like feel bad for me because you had said when you go out, you feel glamorous. Like you're taking yourself to like this nice dinner and like maybe a cocktail. And I was like, what, what a spin.
Why did I not think of it? It's true. I, I also like, so I had that first night, like on the sabbatical where I officially realized like, wow, like things have really dramatically changed. And then as the trip went on, because I was constantly like, I actually did have dinner with a couple people that I met on the trip, but most of time, I was just obviously going out by myself. But it didn't feel like there was just a different, I would say I'm a confident person, but there was a different
Confidence and like walking in and they'd be like, how many I'd be like, just one and it's actually I don't think I said just I think yeah, I would one
That's huge that just right there that like not qualifying it. Yes. That's such a powerful thing.
Katie (23:57.582)
Just one just me. Is that a problem? I could sit at the bar like and I actually prefer to sit at the bar Because it's nice to be able to have the chance
you can connect to people. Yeah.
Yeah, but I think that there was a moment when I also realized it might have been in Amsterdam, which was the end of my trip, where I was walking in and being like, what, not just one or just me. They're subtle, but like, you start to realize like things are shifting.
So good, Katie.
Lily @ Date Brazen (24:26.102)
Well, your brain has changed. You have changed, you know? Like, I just, I'm so excited for where this is gonna take you, because I think the way we do one thing is the way we do everything. So if you're walking into the restaurant and saying, I'm here, I'm taking it, really, essentially, when you're not qualifying, it's not that you'll be solo forever, you obviously will not be. You had friendships that blossomed from this sabbatical trip, you will have a romantic partner, I know that I hold that.
for you until it feels available for you to hold yourself. I don't know how you feel about that right now, but we can discuss it. But I think that you're so much more likely to meet the person. I know that you're so much more likely to meet the person when you are going and doing things that bring you joy IRL.
Yes, I 100 % believe that. And I feel so, so incredibly different than I did a year ago, two years ago. Like I started therapy three years ago. And probably my biggest regret is that I waited so long to start therapy. And then I think that starting and investing in that and also working with a dietitian and then finding your course, like I think those things made me more open to this.
investing in like self-improvement and in myself. Yeah. And I feel so incredibly different and I do feel like, wow, just a very different person than I was a few years ago or six months ago even. And I do believe that like I am putting myself in a much better position to have the opportunity to meet someone aligned through these activities in the Joy Building that it's hard for me to believe the inevitable.
part.
Lily @ Date Brazen (26:09.678)
Because I have yeah
so many years of it not happening despite a lot of effort over the years. I will say I do think I've unpacked through the therapy and the work that we've done together, I've unpacked some season and baggage that I feel like maybe held me back before that isn't there. But I do 100 % believe in the joy building approach.
story.
Katie (26:40.17)
Even if it didn't ever result in people meeting romantic partners, it's still a much better way to be living life.
Yes, yes.
bunchy interests of it. Like the joy building, I can't remember exactly what you called it, but the summer challenge last year, that really kind of kicked this off for me because I got intentional about it. I wrote a list and I was like, what are all the things I'd like to do this summer? Yeah, what was amazing and this happened in main character energy to a lot of the things off the list. I didn't have to force I had some things on the list. People asked me to do out of nowhere like
I had put like, I want to see a drag show. Like I've never done that. That seems fun. I don't know. A month later, one of my friends is like, Hey, they're doing a Barbie drag show tonight. You want to go? And I was like, well, yes, I do.
my God, thank you more, please. Yeah. You become a magnet. I mean, you become a magnet for what you want when you step into your main character energy and when you ask for what you want to yourself first.
Katie (27:41.804)
Yes, yeah, yeah.
I love this. Enjoy building is one of my favorite concepts. I'm so glad you resonate. Katie, let's go back to our sales call for the mastermind. Okay, let's go back. Because it was one of the most memorable and the follow up was one of the most memorable. I've had, you know, hundreds of sales calls over those six, seven years of business. But what do you remember about first talk that you had invested in Brazen Breakthrough? You had done a few months in that program. I perceive that you got a lot out of it. You enjoyed it.
but that there was something like calling you to joining the mastermind. What do you remember going through your brain in that call that we had and let's talk about it.
Yeah, I actually think when I first found you, I think you had been talking about the main character energy course, but you weren't offering it at the time. Okay. And I remember being very drawn to that. But then I saw the dating program and I'm like, well, this, this also really resonates and she's offering it right now. So I jumped on that. So when it came time again, I knew previously like it had drawn me. I had, I was pulled to it, but I was questioning
because I didn't have like a defined thing. So type A and like, was like, so you're gonna join this, but like, you don't know what your outcome is. Like you don't have like, I wanna quit my job or I wanna start a business or I wanna whatever. I didn't have like a yes, a checkbox to say at the end of it, you did the thing. So as a...
Katie (29:20.696)
Type A person, like I was really struggling with that. I am a little fiscally conservative with money at times, although I'm getting so much better with that. I am not conservative at all in life. Just want to put that out there. So the money was like a really big decision and I had made the decision I wanted to spend a month in Europe and it was probably about the same amount of money. So I was like, well, I want to do both, but like, should I? And then it was the program that made me think like, just spending a month in Europe isn't enough.
to ask for the sabbatical. like that made it bigger. But on the call, so was struggling with doing that, being drawn to it, but not having like this perfectly like wrapped thing that I wanted to accomplish. There would be no checkbox to check that like you accomplish. Putting the job, writing the book, starting the business. I wasn't gonna be able to say like people asked me and not many people knew that I did this, but
Yes.
Katie (30:18.634)
of the people that knew that I did it, none of the ones that I shared this with would say, would ever say this. But I wanted to be able to say like, I got X from this. And then over time, I could understand that what you got internally and from like a self-improvement mindset, like was so much more than being able to check a box of like, I
Yeah, yeah.
Katie (30:48.878)
did this other thing. Because that can't, I don't think these things can be taken away from me. The mind shift changes. And I also remember, I'm distracted, like this is not from the call, but I remember there was a moment towards the end of the program when I had recognized that everything I was doing that week, like everyone I was going out with that week, every activity I was doing was all with people who were not in my life before the program.
Wow. Wow.
Even thinking about that makes me a little emotional right now because that was really like that more fulfilling, like joy building social connection. It truly did happen. And I don't know, I don't think that that would have happened. Certainly not at the pace that it happened, if not for the program.
What's the emotion? Tell me more about that.
Yeah, because that like kind of surprised me. Yeah. But I guess as we're talking and I'm realizing like, I didn't have that. I want to quit my job or I want to. I did know that I wanted a more fulfilling social life. So like, it's a little different because it's not like a formal definition, right? Yeah.
Lily @ Date Brazen (32:01.206)
And when you say more fulfilling social life, tell me like, let's get deeper. Like what did you want to feel that you were not feeling? How did you want to be supported that you weren't feeling supported? Like tell me about that.
Yeah, like more connection in my day to day life, more opportunity for like joy building experiences, really connection, I think at the end of the day, deeper connection than just like, you know, like randomly seeing someone like really building friendships and deeper connection.
If I may offer what I see happened is that, you know, going back to the sticky note in front of me, the comfort zone and pushing through, you'd created a beautiful life and that had become sort of the status quo. And there was nothing like quote wrong with it, right? It's not like you were broken or that you needed to fix something necessarily, but I think that you were playing small.
Yeah.
Katie (32:58.925)
Yeah.
And that, you know, creating a more fulfilling social life and social connections and being brave enough to ask for a sabbatical even when you didn't know all the answers and giving yourself permission to go out solo for the first time and not feel shame about it and instead feel self celebratory. I mean, you're playing bigger now, Katie.
think that's a good reflection back. And I think I mentioned this on our initial call too. I feel like it would shock people because I travel a lot and have a good life and go out to nice restaurants and have a nice home. I think it really would surprise people that I didn't feel main character energy in my own life. Because I think externally, it probably looked main character.
Lily @ Date Brazen (34:00.814)
Why do you think you didn't feel it?
I even though it didn't look it, I was playing small. Everything was safe, even though for to me, right? Because everyone has a different comfort level. Like I was not nervous at all about spending a month in Europe by myself. Yeah. And I remember one day one of my friends saying like, you are afraid to go out to dinner by yourself, but you're going to go to Europe for a month. And I'm like, yeah.
That makes total sense to me. Yeah. Why would you ask that question?
I was playing small and comfortable. I would have probably identified it more as like comfortable, but I do. think I was playing small.
I don't have a fully like fleshed out concept here, but what I'm reflecting on is comfort is wonderful and needed so much of the time. mean, life is very difficult. There's a lot of injustice in the world that, you know, the comfort is necessary to our thriving as people or even surviving sometimes, you know, comfort is necessary. I don't want
Lily @ Date Brazen (35:08.354)
this idea to come across as like, we don't need to feel comfortable. think that that's not true. But it's a both and. Comfort is not a useful state of being.
Not if you want to grow and not if you want to change things.
Yeah, comfort is, is has a place if you don't mind exactly where you're at. And but I do think that there's so much more life to live than like, then comfort will allow you to experience if comfort is the main state of being.
One thing I think I learned about myself is throughout this process, I am a grown woman with my own money and no debt other than my mortgage, right? And I still felt the need to kind of get approval on spending this kind of money on myself that was my own money that I had.
Tell me about that. Tell me about that. Even if it does go on a credit card for some people, if you have a financial system that you feel great within, but tell me about the experience of, I need to ask somebody else's opinion or get their approval to spend this much money on myself for this mastermind.
Katie (36:24.31)
one, probably the only hesitation truly that I had about the program, because I think not knowing exactly what I want from it was one thing because I felt so drawn to it. So I was, I could get over that, but it was the biggest amount of money I'd ever, other than like grad school that I'd ever spent on myself for something. And throughout the kind of few weeks when I was debating this, I talked to some really close people in my life about it and
most people were very supportive about it. And there was one that was a little like more cautious, I'll say, in their feedback about it. After kind of hanging up with that person, I realized like, two things. One, I shouldn't be asking anyone else how I should, this is my money, and it's something I want to do.
And I think that's something I really, really learned throughout the program too, is like that self-trust, is one of the first things we start with. I'm not going to shame myself, but I don't think I will ever ask anyone's opinion about how I'm spending my money ever again, because it's really irrelevant. First of all, I was spending well within my means and it's no one, I mean, it's really for myself. So like, don't need anyone's permission. So I felt like I took that away. Another thing I realized,
Huge.
Katie (37:46.154)
after having these conversations is like, why am I questioning? These people are spending similar amounts of money celebrating themselves. No one is judging them because they're couples.
Yeah.
Yep, yep.
It's amazing to me. One, I initiated this, right? Because I started the conversation and I got opinions. But it's amazing to me how judged people, solo people, single people really are with how they spend the money. People have a lot to say about it.
Yes, yes. And if we look back historically at the context of women and money, the recently, and I've talked about this so much, but this year was the 50th anniversary of when a woman could get a credit card without her husband's or father's permission, right? Or I think husbands, need to actually double check that fact. But I don't know about the father's part, but definitely like you had to be like
Lily @ Date Brazen (38:45.47)
married to receive financial independence, not even independence, because you're married, right? And so if we that wasn't that long ago, 50 years isn't that long ago. mean, our parents definitely remember vividly this time. And I just think it's important to recognize how our brains have been conditioned within the patriarchy to doubt ourselves, especially those who are not coupled romantically.
our society is structured to put coupled people as like a head in life as single people, of single people. And why, what, who does that serve? Right? Who does that paradigm serve? Men. And generally single women are left out to dry and treated as like children, which is fucked up.
Yeah.
It is. all of, you know, most of my friends are married with children and, you know, that means they're spending a lot of money on their children and also celebrating, you know, anniversaries and different moments in their life. I would like, I don't think anyone would ever think anything about how they're spending their money or how they're celebrating themselves. Yet I did feel from some people and some people I wouldn't even tell about this.
that were close in my life just because they had previously judged like spending money on myself in those ways.
Lily @ Date Brazen (40:17.302)
What's your new thought about how you spend your money after the mastermind?
I think like two big things. One, my money, my choice.
Great, great. My body, my choice. My body, my choice. Yeah.
And also like I'm very, I'm very responsible and I'm a very good decision maker. And I think the self trust now, like no more, I don't need opinions anymore. Thank you. No more, please. I don't need opinions. And another thing that I felt like I got from this too is I've always been, I was raised, you know, you don't have debt, like you pay everything down, as you overpay on mortgage, pay everything down, save for the future.
and I'm grateful for that. And it's put me in a good place, but I don't, I want to enjoy life now too. And I think it's made me so much more balanced in spending in the now and enjoying the moment. And I actually forced myself on this trip. said, I was hoping that I would find something that was more money than I would normally want to spend that I really want to buy.
Katie (41:29.754)
And I also had no room in my, because I was gone for a month. So it couldn't be anything big. I actually really like buying jewelry when I travel. But usually I buy like silver costume jewelry, something like that. And I went into a jewelry store and I saw this bracelet I loved, but I was like, this isn't enough money. So I need to buy.
I need to buy something else. And I ended up buying a ring, a necklace and the bracelet. I should have worn them. I've only been home for a few days, but I wore them on Monday. And I know forever when I pull them out and I wear them, it will be such a special memory of the trip. And also like a pivotal moment where I was like, no, I deserve this. Like I deserve to have like some nice jewelry to remember this trip by.
spend money on myself. I feel like there's two big things that I took away from this program. One, like my money, my choice, self trust, don't need others opinions. And also that I, it's okay to spend on now, you know, like the balance between spending now and being responsible and saving for the future and letting my, cause you, one, you never know what's going to happen.
Well, I think that in terms of relationship to money, I think it's very directly correlated to relationship to self in some ways. I know that money and our capitalistic culture can be a complex thing to navigate in alignment with values.
I want to connect the money piece to the energy beneath the surface because money is really powerful. And the way that you sound like you're treating money now and be treating yourself in the process is more generous, more expansive. Also the energy of, I see a direct correlation between I'm willing to go to this restaurant and have the best time solo and not.
Lily @ Date Brazen (43:37.752)
have any doubt of myself taking up space in this restaurant. Like I deserve, they're like, do need me to sit somewhere? I'll be in the corner, right? Like, no, like you deserve to take up space in this place and enjoy yourself and have this nice experience. Same, same with, I deserve to go on this. I deserve to ask for a sabbatical, which is another thing that you did courageously, even if you were nervous about what the company response was gonna be.
asking for more time than other people had asked for, isn't that right? That you were asking for more time than anybody else in your company had ever asked for.
I mean, I guess I don't know for sure if anyone had ever asked for it. But yes, I was asking for something that to my knowledge, no one else I worked for had asked for. people were very supportive.
But you created these opportunities for yourself, you know what I'm saying? To enjoy and take up more space and play bigger in your life. What if this was just the beginning of that?
Definitely. Yeah.
Katie (44:38.966)
I think it is just the beginning. It's definitely just the beginning because once you've had a taste of this and you embrace it, you only want more.
Thank you more, please. get everything I want, which is something that we were practicing in the program.
And you know that as a more like pragmatic Practical person I sometimes struggle with some of the sayings like what's meant to you won't be won't pass you by And you know the right relationship is inevitable. Sometimes those are a little hard for me the I Get everything I want like that really clicked cool
Take it and run with it. Those listening, it doesn't mean or negate that hard things will happen in life. Life is always 50-50. It's just this mindset of like, you know, for example, I, you before going to an airport, Chris and I will sit and we'll breathe together and be like, we get everything we want. The airport experience will be easeful. It will be seamless. We are going to have an easy travel day because I get very anxious about travel.
Yeah, it really clicked for me.
Lily @ Date Brazen (45:45.718)
And then the next day for our holiday trip, this past time, it was a shit show at the airport. It was a terrible, terrible experience at the airport. We almost missed our flight. only bought, yeah, it was wild because we got there too late, like all these things. But because of the mindset of I get everything I want, I saw in the difficulty moments where I was getting what I wanted amidst the difficulty. And so, you know, it can be true when things are hard, when things are amazing.
I get everything that I want. Also not to say that everything happens for a reason. That's not what it means. I think it is just like a framing though that generally always helps set you up for playing bigger.
Yeah. And I think you can also like decide what it is like saying something like that makes you think like, what do I want? It puts it back on you to be very conscientious. Like you probably can have what you want. What is it like really sit down and think like obviously the relationship there's some of that that's out of your control. But like the things in your control, you usually can figure out how to get what you want.
What do I want? Yes.
Lily @ Date Brazen (46:53.624)
Yes.
Lily @ Date Brazen (46:57.486)
100%. Tell me last two questions. Number one, you've done a lot of therapy. What did the mastermind give you that enhanced your therapy or was, you know, more powerful than therapy in certain ways or aspects? And then what would you say to somebody on the fence about joining the mastermind?
Yeah, so I would say I actually upped my therapy during the program because I wanted to have
Because you get everything you want.
And I have very good health insurance, which I'm very grateful for. But I really wanted to be able to have one session a week that could complement the work that we were doing together. And then just my regular session. Now, it didn't always necessarily so methodically work out that way. But I knew that like, I wanted so Taipei, I wanted to get the most out of this program. And I thought adding therapy could only help. But I really think that this put
a lot of what I was working on on a much faster path. It just complimented so much of it so well. I think, and I think I mentioned this in the beginning, but I'll kind of full circle it here, like the self-compassion stuff that really, and I still have work to do for sure. But I don't think I would be where I am with that. And also trying to still continue to work on feeling my feelings, which is also very hard for me.
Katie (48:24.514)
but I think relates, it really put it on a much faster trajectory doing this and the therapy work. Not just because I doubled down on therapy, but because it really connects. And each week or each month, there's a theme. They would just inevitably so directly relate to other things I was working on in therapy. And there would be so many little full circle moments.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, think it's the, I mean, I know you say this, that you need to be doing therapy or have a therapist to do the program. And honestly, like, I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to. Together, they're such a good compliment.
Well, I love that share. And I also think that for those who have done therapy before, who are finding that coaching is where they want to invest their time, they take a pause from therapy because that work is over for the time being, like that also can be powerful, I've seen. And there are also those who start therapy for the first time while they're in the mastermind. And that also can be incredibly powerful.
I loved your main character energy project of your dares and your next steps and you daring yourself to do things. And I loved seeing your journey every single week. It was such a joy and pleasure because you really took this seriously and you got everything that you needed out of it and more. I'm hearing that it was surprising some of the results that happened and that's exactly what.
Lily @ Date Brazen (50:02.718)
I desired for all these amazing humans who joined us in the mastermind.
Yes, definitely. Yeah, what you just said to kind of, I think it was a great point about, there, and at least my therapist, who will never tell me what to do, right? And I think sometimes like having that coaching aspect is also so helpful, because you weren't necessarily saying what to do. But you could guide and be more direct in a very different way than a therapist. And you have a different perspective and skill set as well.
So together, they really do make such a good combination, for me at least.
I love that Katie, what would you say to people on the fence about joining the mastermind?
I would honestly say if you're finding yourself drawn to it, there's a reason. And you should have self-trust and listen to your gut and take that first step. Because I'll never forget at the end of our of initial call to see if it would be a good fit, you had me, because I was very tortured. I was very conflicted. And it was really about the money. And you had me just take a breath and spit in my body and say, like, which feels better?
Katie (51:14.382)
Yeah. And I know I told you this on our very final main character call, but I totally lied to you because I told you it felt better to do it. But the truth was what felt better was to say no. But I knew that's because I was pushing myself out of my comfort zone.
Yeah, well, then we've got to define what feeling better means, right? Like I could have been more specific, right? Like, does this feel more comfortable as saying no, and putting that money into my rollover IRA that I got in addition to the 401k that I write, like whatever is happening. But yeah, if it feels more comfortable, and your intention is to allow yourself to be uncomfortable and still feel emotionally safe and like grow.
then you were listening to yourself in that way.
You're right in that regard I was. Yes. Yeah. Yes. But I wanted nothing more to just be like, okay, no, I'm not going to do it. I can be safe. I don't have to worry about over like feeling feeling like I'm overspending.
The shame of taking agency over what you want and then taking action and spending money on what you want.
Katie (52:25.8)
So I would definitely say if you're drawn to it, there's a reason and you should trust it.
I'm proud of you. Tell me one reason why you're really proud of yourself from the last six months.
What I want to say is I'm really proud that I made the decision to do it because that has changed. That was like the starting point and really changing the trajectory for a lot of things and really feeling so much more comfortable and confident in who I am and myself. I journaled in your journal on my trip every day. And I know there's some, some entries in here that just like really talk about this, like just comforting confidence in who I am.
really being excited about this just being the beginning of this new chapter and I'm so grateful that I gave myself this gift and that I know in five years when I look back, I will not have to say, well, I wonder if life could have been better. I wonder if life could have been bigger. I will feel like I have taken such an active
heart and making my life exactly what I want it to be. And I think a lot of that came from this program.
Lily @ Date Brazen (53:45.07)
adore you. And I'm so grateful that we are working together. We got to work together and thank you for being willing to come and vulnerably share your story. I'm so grateful. Y'all, if you want to join Main Character Energy Mastermind, we are opening soon. It is going to be a party. Check the link in the description of this episode to learn more and to join us. Talk to y'all soon. Bye.